In this episode Run it like a girl host Bonnie Mouck talks about why she started podcasting, what it means to be an authentic leader, and why she stopped caring about not knowing what she wants to be.
In this episode Run it like a girl host Bonnie Mouck talks about why she started podcasting, what it means to be an authentic leader, and why she stopped caring about not knowing what she wants to be.
So today is a very sunny hot day in July and I'm thrilled cause we're here to barbecue. And my wonderful sister-in-law Theresa Macbeth has agreed to join me for an interview but has decided to flip things up a little bit and is going to be the one asking the question. Teresa, thank you for suggesting this. I think this is fantastic. This was my brain child. You have done the most incredible job curating an amazing podcast, interviewing all these fantastic women. I was privileged to be one of them and I just thought, okay, but someone's got to interview you because you're pretty incredible. Ah, you know, I appreciate that. And it's funny because a lot of our podcasts, the messages around being bold, being open to opportunities, saying yes. And when you first said this, I was like, oh gosh, no, we can't have you. Me. Why would, why would people want to hear from me? And then I thought, well, what is the last 37 women been saying, Bonnie, they've been saying, take that opportunity. So I said, okay, let's do it and we'll have wine and it'll be fun. And we do have a beautiful glass of wine while we're doing this, which is a bonus. Absolutely. All right. Well should we just get started? It's over to me. Over to you. Awesome. Okay. So what I really want to do is start by hearing about your leadership journey because we know each other so well. I know what you do. I've followed your career trajectory. I've watched you raise two little boys and I want to hear all about it. Tell me about your story and how you got to the point that you're at today. Sure. Yes. Well, you know, it's interesting because I, you know, I always growing up since a young age, I always envy the children in class that knew what they wanted to be, you know, and they stuck with it. You know, from seven, eight years old, I want to be a doctor, I want to be a teacher, I want to be a nurse. And they went and they did that. And I can tell you, that's just not me. I, uh, I have never known from year to year what I want to be and to be honest with you, I still don't know what I want to be. Um, but I've learned that that's OK. Who, you know, I get to do lots of things that way. But one thing I was always interested in was, marketing and, and being part of, of trying to make a difference and being able to kind of, ah, right. I love writing. So conveying messages. How can we, how can we articulate what people are trying to say? How can we sell what it is that we want to sell? Um, so I actually started, um, with another passion of mine, which is actually performing arts and theater, uh, since that is one thing that since a young age I have always loved. And, um, so I was fortunate enough that, uh, the town of grew and grew up in, opened up professional theater company and I basically went in, it was in my first year of university and I said, I will do whatever you want. Just I would, I want to work here. Can you, will you please hire me to do something? Cause I do need to make money, but I will do anything. Um, and uh, Caroline Smith, who was the executive director at the time and someone that I admire, admire so much. Uh, she actually hired me. So I worked box office and then, uh, you know, I did that for a couple of years through university and I, and I loved it and I loved the atmosphere that I decided that I think I want to be in the arts, but I think I want to do, I think it's the marketing aspect. Um, so, you know, uh, my journey took me to a few arts organizations, including a factory theater, which is a midsize theater company in Toronto. And we actually had the, the former, uh, my former Boston executive director cart, uh, Colleen Smith on, on an episode because she's just so amazing. Um, and then eventually, you know, I thought, I want to try something different. I've, I've been in the arts for about 10 years. I think it's, I think it's time. And, and I went and I joined a, an amazing organization called PWC, Pricewaterhouse Coopers in marketing. And I've been fortunate enough to work with people that, uh, that have allowed me to grow, have given me opportunity, um, and allowed me to really, uh, find my way. So that was, uh, that was kind of my journey to where I am and I've, I've been with them through two, two mat leaves with my, with my boys who are out the window shooting each other with water guns as we speak. Um, and uh, and yeah, and that Kinda takes us to where we are today. Amazing. Those are my nephews. They are, my pride. And joys, your pride and joys, their my vicarious pride and joy while I'm listening to you and this is why we're kindred spirits because you're telling your story in every two seconds. I'm like, me too. Me Too. It's incredible. So I w I want to follow up a couple of things that you talked about. Um, and one of them is that you, you weren't one of those people that always knew what they wanted to do and that really resonates with me because I, I am the same way. I love what I do and I've ended up in exactly the right place in my work at Kingston Health Sciences Center doing similar work to what you do. Um, but that was not my plan. I just sort of followed my inspiration along the way and ended up in integrate job. And you had a guest that had a very similar piece of advice to not be so fixated on what it is that you want to do and so focused on one particular thing. What do you think, um, has really jumped out at you that has helped you decide to go from one career to the next to take you ultimately to where you are today? Ha. You know, that's, that's a great question. And I think, you know, when I made the transition out of arts, um, really at that point I just, I was like, I need to try something different. I'm not a, and to be honest with you, it's because, uh, for me, performing arts has become work and growing up and being exposed to the arts and, and it was never work. It was my passion. It was, it was, um, just a part of who we were. I, I loved going to the theater. I loved going, uh, to hear music. I loved all of that, but all of a sudden it was work and I wasn't going to as many shows anymore because that was my day job. Um, so there, I just thought, you know, I'm going to try something different. And my husband who works at it, works in corporate Canada said, why don't you try corporate Canada? You know, there's some perks there that you don't necessarily get and not for profit organizations. Um, but once I got into to pwc, someone, uh, similar to some of my guests have said is, you know, what would happen if you didn't say no if for those really important things or, or you know, you know, not about little minor things but for important interesting opportunities. What did you just said? Yes. So with my career at PWC, I've kind of taken that approach. I, every time someone asked me to do something, if my instinct is, oh gosh, no, I don't want to do that. Um, I think about it and that's kind of how I landed in my last role is I was quite comfortable in my previous role. I was enjoying it. Things were going along and you know, my boss said, well, what if, what if he did this for a little while? What would you think of that? And at first I was like, well, no, I love, I love my job. I'm good at it, and now I know how to do it. Um, but I think by just standing back and thinking, you know, well, what could possibly go wrong? I have the support of an amazing boss, amazing leaders at my firm. Um, I'm going to try it. And I've never, I've never actually regretted that. I've never regretted trying something different. You either find out you like it or you find out that it's not for you, but it's never been a mistake. That's a real learning mindset. I love it. And so now you're working at this global consulting firm. What's your favorite part of your job right now? I'm, so now I'm, I'm, I'm in a role where I, uh, I have a variety of responsibilities under me. So I have different portfolios. All that are, um, are kind of more brand experience. We call my team. So one, I'm responsible for brand for PWC. So making sure that how we're portraying yourself in market is how we want to be portrayed. What is it that our clients are feeling when they talk with us, when they work with us? How are we, how are we demonstrating the value that[inaudible] can bring every day in our work? Um, so with that comes portfolios, like our sponsorships, our national sponsorship strategy. So who are we sponsoring? Who are we aligning with? How are we making a difference to the communities with which we work in? Um, so my favorite part of my job is actually people, because I'm a, I'm in a role now where I have, uh, I'm a bit larger of a team and I, and I love the opportunity to watch them, um, do what they do, which is they're all rock stars and they're all really amazing marketers. Um, and I'm just so happy that I get a chance to be part of that and learn from them and um, and watch, watch them do what they do and provide the support that I can, uh, to them, which is a real, is a real treat. I didn't know, I hadn't been in a role of managing more than one or two people, but I think the, it's the people that make the job, I think. Yeah. People make every job I think. I think so. Absolutely. So this is a big leadership role that you've taken on. And in your podcast you talk a lot about authentic leadership. Um, and I love those words. What do they mean to you? Um, well, you know, I can't remember it was in an article, but I was reading something of the day and you know, the person said, you have to make sure, uh, who you are from nine to five is who you are from five to nine. And I love that. And to me that, that is what it is. So when I come to work, I'm, I'm just me and, um, and I think that, uh, to be an authentic leader, you have to, first of all, you have to care about the people that you are working with and you have to, um, be the kind of leader that is at front of the problem, not at the back of the problem or any issues that arise. So to me, authentic leader is bringing myself to work every day. Understanding that not everyone has a perfect day every day and that that's okay. And to let that through to sh to be, um, I just want to be me and, uh, I want to, uh, provide my team with a, an environment where they can work, they can grow, they can, um, do challenging, uh, have challenging opportunities. Um, so if I tried to distill it, authentic leadership is exactly that line. Uh, that who you are from nine to five is who you are from five to nine. Amazing. And so this whole field of leadership and authentic leadership seems to be a real passion for you. I sense that's maybe why you started this podcast, but tell me more about that. Where did the podcast come from? You know, that's a, that's a good question. Um, so in back to PWC, uh, they have a, PWC has a program called, uh, it's a women in leadership program where, uh, you get to participate in a six month journey and you get to meet some incredible women and hear incredible stories from people that are, you know, are leading the firm or leading outside organizations. And the stories was the most, uh, the part of the program that had the most impact for me. And so I thought, you know, I, I love this and I think, I think other people would love this too. I love hearing what people are doing, but I kind of want it to extend it beyond the business world. Um, I thought, you know, businesses a is where I am. I'm in kind of corporate, corporate Canada world, but, uh, there's so much out there and so much experience that people can, can do that. I thought wouldn't it be neat to hear from people from a variety of fields that are really pushing boundaries, doing different things. Like we interviewed Dr Hazel Barton, who's a microbiologist and a caver and she talked about being a woman and being a caver and how she, you know, at first she thought like she couldn't bring her whole self to work, but really when her career, uh, kind of changed, it was when she realized she can do, she can be who she is and she can be an amazing caver, an amazing microbiologist. Um, and that to me was really, uh, what I wanted to showcase. And I have two boys and you know, they're growing up in a different time than we did. Um, they're growing up with a, you know, there is a lot of focus on gender equality, gender equity, um, diverse and inclusive workforces. But there is still a lot to do. There is still a ways to go. And so I want them when they look at me to see someone that's helping make change, that's a strong working woman and that, uh, you know, I can be their mom and I can be this as well. That's incredible. And they are lucky. Boys thinks they know it. I hope they know in tears. One of them just walked by right now. Um, so you've talked about the podcast, you've been doing that, you've done a full season. God knows how many episodes. It's a lot. I have a little bit of catching up to do, but I'm almost there. And you've been working a full time job. So how do you balance, uh, your family and your little boys and your job and a podcast? There's probably other things I don't even know about. How are you doing this? You know, that's, that's a good question because, yeah, we did. We did 30 that we featured 39 women last year plus, uh, I think a couple extra episodes of, of different kinds of things. Um, and it's a lot and it takes a lot of work. Um, I mean, I'm not alone. I have, uh, this project is a partnership between me and my brother Brian, who, uh, is a, is a teacher in his full time job in raising three girls. Um, we work together and we figure things out. And what I do is I, I try to include them in it. Cause the podcast last summer, it was weekends traveling across Ontario. Uh, we're doing it remotely this year. We've decided because that's part of the balance that we need. We can't be away from our families that much. Um, so bring them with them, let them see some of these incredible women and hear about their journeys and see where they're working and what they're doing. And also that they understand that what we're doing is important. Um, and I also think when you, and someone said this to me, it was actually someone that's gonna be on season two. She's a, I'm a managing partner at PWC, Lana Peyton. And I remember hearing her speak once and she said, it's about being there for the moments that matter. So what is it, what moments are there that matter to your children? Where do they need you to be? And those are the ones that you prioritize. So that's what I do. If I know they want me to be at their craft day at school because they want me there and they want me to volunteer, I will make it happen. But you have to miss some things everyone does as people that work. The thing I heard in, uh, in what you've just described as you, you really seem to blur the lines between work and home and you've included your kids and Brian's included his kids in this journey of creating this podcast and made it a learning opportunity for them. Yes. Literally, as I said, he's raising three daughters. So, uh, you know, the oldest one is 16, now has her just got her license and or her g one or whatever it's called now and has a job and you know, the other two are not far behind and my boys, so, um, I think it's important like anything to show them what's out there and what, what's happening in the world. But yeah, I don't like work life balance. Um, it's funny thing because, uh, I, I don't know how, who, who has it right. But, uh, what I try to do is, like I said, it's, it's, it's the moments that matter and include them in it so that they know. Although one funny thing that I'll tell you is, um, my friend was telling me that my son said he wants to work where my husband works. And she said, Oh, why do you want to work there? And he said, well, he just stays home all day. Um, and we work from home, we work remotely. I guarantee you he's working hard from nine to five. But what my son saw was that he goes to school and we stay home. So it's also educating and what's out there because, and nowadays remote work is so much more popular and so much with technology able to do it. But you are actually working. That's a good lesson for the kids. I love it. You have a question that you always ask on your podcast and I'm really curious about what your answer is going to be to this question because I've known you for a long time and you have always been a very wise perceptive person. So, um, think of your 21 year old self, um, and what was going on for you in your life at that time versus where you are today. And what would the Bonnie of today give as advice to the 21 year old Bonnie? Yup. The question we ask everyone, and I love it because you get different answers from different people. Themes stay the same, but the answers are different. But what would I say to that? Um, you know, I think, I think I would say, uh, don't worry what people think. I think I spent a lot of time in my twenties, um, doing what people expected me to do or, um, you know, wanting to, to be with my friends and, and, and uh, and just do what they were doing. Um, I think there's a lot to being a, a standout. Don't worry about your quirkiness because it's actually an advantage. Embrace it. Um, and go for what you want and what you want might require you to, to be more into school or more into, um, to learn about something different. But I think, yeah, I think my advice to be[inaudible] don't care what people think. You're strong. You can do anything you want. You just have to go and get it and uh, and explore different things. Don't worry that you don't know what you want to be because a, that just makes life more interesting cause you get to try different things. So I think it really comes down to don't worry about not knowing what you want to be. Nobody actually does except for those few very lucky people that have a straight career path that they want and don't care what people think as much. Do you do what you want to do and uh, go for your dreams and don't worry about what other people think about that. That is a great piece of advice. Where do you see that taking you in the next five to 10 years? You know, that's interesting. I don't know. It's, it's, that's another thing I've never been good at. I've never been good at planning out. Like what does the next five years look like? Where do you want to be? Um, you know, I love this podcast so much. I love, uh, I love marketing. Um, I see myself kind of right now. I see myself continuing on the path that I'm on. Um, but I really wanna um, I want to explore more opportunities with my kids. I want to, I want them to, uh, to understand what it means to be able to do anything you want. So I don't know what that looks like for us over the next five years. Um, but I want to, um, I want to do something with impact. I want to always have, um, always be passionate about what I do. When I stopped liking what I do, that's when I think I have to rethink it and see what that means. Um, so I've, yeah, that is the hardest question ever since I was a kid. What does the next five years hold for you? What does the next 10 years hold for you? Um, right now it's, I try really hard. I don't say no to opportunity. I, uh, I want to see what's out there and I'm willing to explore anything and everything. Uh, as long as I enjoying it.[inaudible] I love it. It's about the journey. It's about the journey. I agree it would be kind of boring if we knew exactly where we were going to be in five years. Bonnie, thank you so much for sharing your story. I have been dying to do this as I've been listening to your podcast and all the amazing women that you've been speaking to and honestly, you are like number one. Amazing.[inaudible] thank you so much. I really appreciate it, Theresa. And, uh, I'm, I'm guessing that our, uh, our barbecue food is probably almost ready, so we shouldn't fill up our wineglasses in that. Let me go have some teeth. Let's do it. Awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Run it like a girl is hosted by Bonnie Moke. Brian Long is the producer web design and technical assistance provided by Dan Moke and music courtesy of the talented Brooklyn[inaudible]. Chuck.